TRAVELLER Digest 562

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) by traveller@MPGN.COM
  2) by traveller@MPGN.COM
  3) 3-d space and...the density barrier by AQLH90D@prodigy.com (MR JON G FULLER)
  4) by traveller@MPGN.COM
  5) TNE players in the Dayton, Ohio area by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
  6) Plague of Duskir: Sez Who? by Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>
  7) Technolgy vs. Mass and the Nth Interstellar War by Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>
  8) THis is a little delayed... by gdw.support@genie.com
  9) Plague by shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
 10) Re: TRAVELLER digest 561 by Les Howie <lhowie@lrmi.com>
 11) Re: Subject: 2300: Near Stars, "Alpha Crucis" by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
 12) Re: "Real Traveller" and GDW's past history by Christopher Beattie <chrisb@MPGN.COM>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:05:17 -0500
From: traveller@MPGN.COM
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Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 06:28:08 -0500
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From: jamesd@loki.spirit.net.au (James Dempsey)
To: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: Re: Pieces & Parts for FFS
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Traveller Mailing List

On Jan 19 Joseph Heck wrote:

> > From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
>
> > The hard part, like an OOP, is building the
> > $@#!##@ objects the first time. Net.Book anyone? (depending, of course on
> > whatever the copyright issues are for publishing designed based on
> > FFS...Have you gotten that far yet, Mark?)
>
> There's already some of that happening, although nothing organized.
> I've been keeping archives of all the starships & such [..]
> For example, I have in the archives a design for a TL14 700Mj Laser...
>
> If we stick with FFS, then there's already quite a collection of
> interesting pieces out there...
>
> (http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/archive/TNE/FFS.designs/TL14.700Mj.
Laser.txt)
>
To be really useful, we should add some sort of organisation to the
collection, say a further grouping, or an index. The grouping and/or index
should separate things into categories such as different ships systems
and weapons, much like the chapters in FFS. So your laser would be listed
under the categories Weapons, Lasers, TL14 etc. As a further improvement,
adding a search engine to the system would make it invaluable.

Mind you, this would take a LOT of work to set up and maintain. IMHO it
would need to be a group project. Obviously it would make no sense to
start this sort of thing until we know which way ship design is going...

BFN,
James Dempsey                     ///
----------------------------     ///
 jamesd@spirit.com.au        \\\///
                              \XX/



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:15:59 -0500
From: traveller@MPGN.COM
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Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:13:51 -0500
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From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: 2300: Near Stars, "Alpha Crucis"
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Traveller Mailing List

Since people are talking about 3D star maps, here's some information I'd
put together that someone else out there might find useful.  I know it's
mostly 2300AD, not TRAVELLER, but I've got some more TRAVELLER-related
ideas that I might post later.

I found an electronic file on the 'net that I suspect to be very similar
to the source that GDW used to prepare the Near Star List (NSL).  While
somewhat different than Gliese's Preliminary Third Catalog of Nearby
Stars (1991), it does seem useful to identify the stars which GDW left
with only fictional names in the NSL.  Here's a short list of some of the
systems which don't have the names given clearly on the NSL charts, for
anyone who might be curious:

NAME                DESIGNATION          ALT. DESIGNATION     GLIESE

Augerau             DM +44 2051                               412
Berthier            DM +49 2079                               438.1
Bessieres           DM +36 2147         [Lalande 21185]       411
Botany Bay          DM +33 2777                               638
Broward             DM -12 4523 (A)                           628
Catherine's Star    DM +38 2285 (B)     [CF UMa]              451 (B)
Clarkesstar         DM -08 4352 (A)     [Wolf 630]            644
D'Artagnon          L 205-128                                 693
Davout              DM -44 11909                              682
Ellis               AC +48 1595-89                            623
Haifeng             Wolf 922                                   83.1
Henry's Star        DM +38 2285 (A)                           451 (A)
Hochbaden           DM +27 2296                               528
Hunjiang            DM -37 15492                                1
Kimanjano           DM +34 2342                               480.2
King                DM +02 3312                               673
Neubayern           DM +50 1725                               380
New Melbourne       AC +18 1453-48                            686
Nyotekundu          Wolf 359                                  406
Qinyuan             L 726-8                                    65 (A)
Queen Alice's Star  DM +46 1797                               477.1
Red Speck           DM +45 2505 (A)                           661
Serurier            AC -24 2833-133                           729
Vogelheim           DM +33 2269                               484.1
Xiuning             DM -49 13515        [L 354-89]            832


AC == Astronomical Catalog
DM == Durchmusterung (these designations come from three separate catalogs,
      and the DM may be replaced by BD, CD, or CP, depending on the next
      two digits of the star designation, which is its' declination in the
      sky in degrees.  DM is used to fit with the rest of the NSL.)
G  == Giclas
L  == Luyten
VB == Van Biesbrock


SOME INTERESTING UPDATES:

.or, reality and the Hubble Space Telescope intrude on our little game.

A typo has been found on the Near Star List.  The F2V star at coordinates
<-45.0, -1.2, -20.5> identified as Alpha Crucis is in fact *Alpha Corvi*.
Alpha Crucis is further away and is a binary system containing a blue-white
subgiant, while Alpha Corvi (Gliese 455.3) is a solo F2V.  It seems likely
that the person who prepared the NSL misread the star's constellation
abbreviation as Cru (Crux), not Crv (Corvus), especially considering that
the preceding catalog entry (Gliese 455.2) is Eta Crucis.  "Alpha Crucis"/
Alpha Corvi is just inside the map, placed 49.5 ly from Earth by the NSL.
This typo may have affected the sector naming scheme in TRAVELLER as well.

VB 8 was once thought to have a brown dwarf companion, VB 8 B, and while
VB 8 B is not in the NSL, it did appear in an article on the Clarkesstar
system in _Travellers' Digest_.  That magazine did a fair amount of
development in the American Arm, including two articles in #11 that opened
the Arm by placing a fictional brown dwarf, ISO 417, at <7.6, -27.2, 4.7>.

However, Hubble Space Telescope has verified the existence of Gliese 229 B,
a *real* brown dwarf.  This is equivalent to the star DM -21 1377 B, whose
system in the 2300AD world contains a Brazilian outpost on the Latin Finger
of the Chinese Arm, at the edge of human space.  Gliese 229 B has a mass of
20 to 50 Jupiters and radiates at not more than 1000 Kelvin.  The Brazilians
have something to study now!

Along similar lines, HST found another new star, Gliese 623 B, one of the
smallest stars known.  This is in the Ellis system, site of a major American
colony.  Fortunately, its' 2 AU orbit is far enough out that all of the
fictional planets established to be in the system in the game are legal
under the star system rules.  Other vital statistics of the star include an
absolute magnitude of 16.5 or so, and 0.1 solar mass.  Gliese 623 B
shouldn't appear much more than twice as bright from Ellis as the Moon is
from Earth.


  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:15:23 EST
From: AQLH90D@prodigy.com (MR JON G FULLER)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 3-d space and...the density barrier
Message-ID: <013.09179500.AQLH90D@prodigy.com>



Pondering the current question of 3-dimensional space in Traveller, I
kept remembering a group of old computer games entitled 'Star Saga'.
In Star Saga, a player's movement in space was visually depicted by a
small lump of colored plastic on a large, colored map.  The map was
broken into what were referred to as 'trisectors'...usually, one
trisector bordered on another, but sometimes a thicker line seperated
two trisectors.  The line depicted a 'density barrier' -- a barrier
in space in which the jump drive refused to operate.  (This,
incidentally, fit with the rest of the game mechanics -- that our arm
of the galaxy is divided into density gradients which force one to
use different methods of jump travel in different sections of the arm.
  There were three changes in jump method, so the game was really a
trilogy).

Now, about Traveller.  I'm not proposing this as something to be
published, but merely as a nifty way for GM's to explain why the
Imperium's map doesn't represent all the worlds it should (ie. those
above and below sectors in spacial terms).

The galaxy is divided into 'density slabs'.  The Imperium and the
spaces adjacent lie within one large sheet of space that has a
special property that few have been able to pin down.  Jump drives
commonly found in the Imperium can only operate within this slab or
space.  Above and below the Imperial slab, there are other slabs...
stars within or beyond this slab are unreachable using the jump drive
types 'commonly' found in the Imperium.  (Pilots and astrogators are
always taught this in their respective academies, and most people
accept that ships may never be able to reach those stars or figure
that advances in jump drive technology (j1 to j2 to j3 to j4 to j5 to
j6...so on) will eventually allow them to journey past whatever
barrier lies there.)

Now then...suppose, out on the edge of nowhere, at an Imperial naval
base, some astronomer notices a star five lightyears into the next
density slab go out.  Snuffed like a candle in the dark.  No
supernova, no collapse.  Nothing.  Recognizing this as an unnatural
phenomena, he makes his report and the Imperial navy starts
researching ways to penetrate that slab as though it were the only
project that needed funding.  Eventually, they find a way, but civil
war or <insert calamity here> occurs and the drive and its associated
paperwork is lost.

Adventure seed:  The players journey to <insert planet name here> on
their way to their true destination (so they believe) -- it's only
supposed to be a stopover, so they don't expect anything to untoward
to happen.  One of them notices, however, that several men and aliens
in dark cloaks is constantly nearby whereever they go on the planet.
If confronted, the darkly attired men will explain that they seek
people familiar with space travel interested in doing some dangerous
(but relatively profitable) work.  If the players agree, they will be
taken to a monastery.  There, a Hierophant will lay out the plan for
the players: using a technology hidden for centuries, they are to
journey into the density slab and discover exactly what is occurring.
 The Brothers are, as they style themselves, 'gaurdians' and watchers.
  They sent out their only vessel equipped with the jump drive -- and
their only astrogator -- over a year ago.  Lacking the resources to
mount another expedition, they are turning to the players for help.
Par
s for a second drive are available, but the monks require an existing
drive to mount it on -- enter the players and their vessel.  The
players are informed that these expeditions into the slab are rare
and are only performed at fifty year intervals.  The monks will be
unwilling to give any other information, but will send along one of
their number to observe.

Embellish it as you choose...there could be an immense star spanning
civilization inside the slab...or the burnt husk of an empire...or
dozens of star-states warring amongst themselves.  One thing is
pretty clear -- it ain't nothing like home.

Jon "hoping to get _some_ response this time" Fuller





------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:44:38 -0500
From: traveller@MPGN.COM
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From: AQLH90D@prodigy.com (MR JON G FULLER)
To: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@mpgn.com>
Subject: 3-d space and...the density barrier
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Traveller Mailing List



Pondering the current question of 3-dimensional space in Traveller, I
kept remembering a group of old computer games entitled 'Star Saga'.
In Star Saga, a player's movement in space was visually depicted by a
small lump of colored plastic on a large, colored map.  The map was
broken into what were referred to as 'trisectors'...usually, one
trisector bordered on another, but sometimes a thicker line seperated
two trisectors.  The line depicted a 'density barrier' -- a barrier
in space in which the jump drive refused to operate.  (This,
incidentally, fit with the rest of the game mechanics -- that our arm
of the galaxy is divided into density gradients which force one to
use different methods of jump travel in different sections of the arm.
  There were three changes in jump method, so the game was really a
trilogy).

Now, about Traveller.  I'm not proposing this as something to be
published, but merely as a nifty way for GM's to explain why the
Imperium's map doesn't represent all the worlds it should (ie. those
above and below sectors in spacial terms).

The galaxy is divided into 'density slabs'.  The Imperium and the
spaces adjacent lie within one large sheet of space that has a
special property that few have been able to pin down.  Jump drives
commonly found in the Imperium can only operate within this slab or
space.  Above and below the Imperial slab, there are other slabs...
stars within or beyond this slab are unreachable using the jump drive
types 'commonly' found in the Imperium.  (Pilots and astrogators are
always taught this in their respective academies, and most people
accept that ships may never be able to reach those stars or figure
that advances in jump drive technology (j1 to j2 to j3 to j4 to j5 to
j6...so on) will eventually allow them to journey past whatever
barrier lies there.)

Now then...suppose, out on the edge of nowhere, at an Imperial naval
base, some astronomer notices a star five lightyears into the next
density slab go out.  Snuffed like a candle in the dark.  No
supernova, no collapse.  Nothing.  Recognizing this as an unnatural
phenomena, he makes his report and the Imperial navy starts
researching ways to penetrate that slab as though it were the only
project that needed funding.  Eventually, they find a way, but civil
war or <insert calamity here> occurs and the drive and its associated
paperwork is lost.

Adventure seed:  The players journey to <insert planet name here> on
their way to their true destination (so they believe) -- it's only
supposed to be a stopover, so they don't expect anything to untoward
to happen.  One of them notices, however, that several men and aliens
in dark cloaks is constantly nearby whereever they go on the planet.
If confronted, the darkly attired men will explain that they seek
people familiar with space travel interested in doing some dangerous
(but relatively profitable) work.  If the players agree, they will be
taken to a monastery.  There, a Hierophant will lay out the plan for
the players: using a technology hidden for centuries, they are to
journey into the density slab and discover exactly what is occurring.
 The Brothers are, as they style themselves, 'gaurdians' and watchers.
  They sent out their only vessel equipped with the jump drive -- and
their only astrogator -- over a year ago.  Lacking the resources to
mount another expedition, they are turning to the players for help.
Par
s for a second drive are available, but the monks require an existing
drive to mount it on -- enter the players and their vessel.  The
players are informed that these expeditions into the slab are rare
and are only performed at fifty year intervals.  The monks will be
unwilling to give any other information, but will send along one of
their number to observe.

Embellish it as you choose...there could be an immense star spanning
civilization inside the slab...or the burnt husk of an empire...or
dozens of star-states warring amongst themselves.  One thing is
pretty clear -- it ain't nothing like home.

Jon "hoping to get _some_ response this time" Fuller





------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 19:26:57 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: TNE players in the Dayton, Ohio area
Message-ID: <s1029333.093@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>

   One of the regular players in my group may be heading south for the
winter (and spring and summer, etc.).

   I'm looking for TNE players in the Dayton, Ohio area to become my
Traveller group.  Most of our adventures take place in the Solomani Rim
using a home grown version of the post-Collpase era that I have
developed.  My group would also be interested in joining in your own TNE
campaigns if you are interested.

   Send your e-mails (or cash  :)  ) to hdhale@tasc.com.

Regards,

Harold



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:48:05 +1100 (EST)
From: Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Plague of Duskir: Sez Who?
Message-ID: <199601220148.MAA15327@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>

OK, now that I know where it's from, it's *easy* to discount. The info is
from terran sources, and so is suspect, you say, in that it claims the
plague occurred *after* the war was over. Aha, but my premise is that the
Terran *military* were the ones who placed these "lies as truth" along
with their Vilani collaborators ... so we need to keep in mind that the
information on the plague is *not* planted by "Terrans" per se but by
"Imperial" (or "Militarist") Terran "Imperials".

Given that, it still makes no difference to my alternate history. Regardless
of when the plague occurred, it had a minimal effect on the course of the war,
and the real victory was won by Terran productiveness.

As for Vilani medical tech, well, I still believe that it would have been
good enough for the so-called "plague" to have been no worse than the Spanish
'Flu. You mention the 90% (in some cases, not all) die backs of indigenous
populations in Terran history resulting from them encountering "modern"
civilisation and its many diseases ... but note that the main killer in these
cases was not the disease *per se*, but the social collapse that accompanied
it. Many of those people, probably most, would have survived if simple nursing
techniques were applied - provision of food/water, keeping them warm etc. -
but the fear engendered by something so obviously "supernatural" was the
kicker, and most of the people fled the ill, leaving them to die, nominally
of the diseases, but actually as much from neglect as anything else. (This
is thought to be a possible reasnon why Christianity was so successful in
the Roman Empire - during the plagues of the 3rd or 4th centuries, the
pagans basically fled for their lives, while the Christians basically
remained behind and provided the sort of basic care - "charity" if you will -
that saved many of the ill, who were so impressed by the power of their
belief and their god that they converted in large numbers.)

The Vilani are a different kettle of fish. They *must* have knowledge of
diseases - what I was trying to point out is that, even on Vland, where there
were no organisms closely related to them, there must have been food animals
which carried disease organisms ... and, *inevitably*, close association
with large enough concentrations will lead to some crossover simply as a
result of mutual mutation and genetic drift. Some basic precautions for the
treatment of such outbreaks would be part of the Vilani medical knowledge -
and their conquest of the empire would expose them to microbial and viral
organisms from other planets, the ones with the Minor races, at least, that
would be sufficiently different from their own "normal" microbial/viral
background to cause diseases and spur some basic knowledge of disease
amelioration and control methods. Also, consider their contacts with the
Vargr, also of Terran stock (and Influenza is thought, IIRC, to be related
to Distemper ... or is it Swine 'Flu, and distemper is related to some
other human disease? Really makes no difference, the point is still valid).

Also, there has, by the Nth Interstellar War, been ongoing contacts between
the Vilani and Solomani for several hundred years ... and you can assume that
many human diseases would have swept through Vilani space *already*. And it
is likely that the humans offered medical knowledge and vaccines to the
Vilani to treat these diseases, so they are aware of the problems. Look, the
sort of biowar plague that you are claiming the Plague of Duskir was is not
very likely to exist ... something that affects only Vilani, and is a megadeath
causer. Not given the ongoing contacts they've had with humans ... and, given
the long period of separation between the two races it is just as likely
that the Vilani are carriers of some otherwise *to them* harmless virus or
bacteria that is a nasty surprise to their long lost Terran cousins.

Thus, the Plague was not likely to be a significant factor as a military
weapon, and is more likely to simply be a cachet given to a number of
different diseases that the Vilani had not yet been exposed to prior to the
Terran defeat of their military. Or that's what I'll claim, anyway, and it
makes perfect sense, and is not overly (or even very) complex!

As for the problems of hiding such a conspiracy. Well, why is it a problem?
Yes, there's almost certainly a *lot* of information out there that shows it
to be a lie, but who's going to allow it to be published openly? At the time,
no-one. And for the here and now, well, we know the Imperial Government
routinely suppresses information it does not want spreading - look at its
attitude (supposedly) to Psionics, the Domain of Deneb's manipulation of the
Imperial Library Database, and even the pursuit of Prof Kuligaan (? You know,
the guy who suggested the Imperium wasn't etenal in the pre-Virus period).

Then consider the Imperial attitude to "research" ... how the Solomani
Hypothesis was proved. The guy who did it did no onsite research, he simply
did a database search of *secondary* material! Now, since we know the
Imperium manipulates the database, then the material that would show the
truth probably only exists in hardcopies in University libraries and private
collections in the Solomani sphere (or what was *once* the Solomani sphere).
And a lot of that is probably suppressed or security coded, too. Especially
since the Solomani Party is dominated by ethnic Vilani from the occupation
forces who wish to keep their positions ... SolSec would suppress it as a
matter of course, and even more ruthlessly than the Imperials, in all
likelihood.

Then, there's the simple passage of time *and* the fact that the "official"
version of history fits all the facts - because all the facts that don't
fit have been suppressed. How many Japs know the "truth" about WW2? And
they're pikers compared to a thousand year old Imperium!!!

All in all - I don't see it as a problem.

Phil McGregor



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:59:52 +1100 (EST)
From: Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Technolgy vs. Mass and the Nth Interstellar War
Message-ID: <199601220159.MAA17286@sydney.DIALix.oz.au>

It has been suggested that the Gulf War is an example of superior technology
defeating mass and that this can and should be applied to the Terran victory
in the Nth Interstellar War. The suggestion is that a sufficient tech
difference would have been like "magic" to the low tech participants. This
is likely true, even allowing for the minimal *actual* difference between
most Traveller TLs. However, the main problem is that there was only a one
TL difference between the competitors ... the Terrans achieved Jump3 while
the Vilani had only Jump2.

Looking along the same TL lines, Jump3 is TL12 and Jump2 TL 11.

Personal Military Tech: PGMP-12, Gauss Rifle for Terrans; Combat Armor and
ACR for Vilani.

Heavy Military Tech: Fusion Guns, Dampers, Superdense Armor for the Terrans;
Repulsors, Meson Guns, Plasma Guns and Crystaliron for the Vilani.

Computers: Model 6 for Terra; Model 5 for Vilani

Commo: Translators for the Terrans; Personal Datalinks for the Vilani

Medical: Broad Antitoxins, Enhanced Prosthetics for the Terrans; Nerve Refusion
and Artificial Eyes for the Vilani.

Transport: Jump3 for Terrans; Jump2 for Vilani

Energy: Fusion Plants 250l minimum for Terra; 1000 liter minimum for
Vilani.

A qualitative edge, to be sure, but not big enough to account for the sheer
mass of the Vilani versus the Terrans. And, given the usual cost of "cutting
edge" tech, most of the Terran fleet probably still would have been Jump2
in any case. So there *still* needs to be an explanation of how the Vilani
lost ... and Terran outproduction by virtue of a different approach to
manufacturing is as good an answer as any.

Phil McGregor

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 03:20:00 UTC 0000
From: gdw.support@genie.com
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: THis is a little delayed...
Message-ID: <199601220323.AA122151033@relay1.geis.com>

This is a bit delayed, but I thought you would all want to read it.

 TAPS FOR GDW

 January 2 1996

 Bloomington, Illinois

 It is no secret that GDW has been financially stressed for some time.
 These financial stresses have now reached the point where it is
 impossible to continue to do business.

 As of February 28 1996, GDW will cease operations forever. Our time
 between now and then will be occupied in dividing the tangible assets
 of the corporation among the creditors in as equitable a manner as
 possible and in finding new homes for the creative properties
 currently published by GDW. It is our desire that all of our key game
 lines, both roleplaying and miniatures, find suitable publishers who
 will take to heart the needs of the gamers who have supported these
 lines for so long.

 In the past several months as our financial problems have become more
 widely known, we have been bombarded by offers of help from customers
 -- offers of free layout, typesetting, design, and more. It is this
 sort of consumer support and loyalty which makes gaming a very special
 place to do business, and has made it such a pleasure and priviledge
 to serve you for the last 22-1/2 years. GDW may have failed you, but
 you never failed GDW.

  Frank Chadwick
    -- President

 To which I also add my signature...I have not completely decided
what I will be doing, but I feel that I still have something to
contribute to gaming.

 Wherever I end up, doing business with you all has been a trip...

 Thanks...

      Loren K. Wiseman

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 21:24:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Plague
Message-ID: <BJB4HD1w165w@krypton.rain.com>

Phillip McGregor <aspqrz@sydney.DIALix.oz.au> writes:

>Regardless, from what we know of the history of diseases on Terra, it seems
>unlikely in the extreme that some sort of nasty Terran-originated disease
>would have been such a killer that it would have enabled the Terrans to beat
>the Ziru Sirka simply because of it.
<snip>
>However, just consider a few facts that make the plague scenario unlikely.
>One, the biggest killer in modern times, disease wise, was the so-called
>Spanish Influenza which broke out at the end of WW1. It was, as I have been
>given to understand by several sources, far and away the most virulent
>plague of modern times ... yet it was really rather trivial in an overall
>sense. Sure, a hell of a lot of people died, perhaps as many as died in WW1,
>but that was peanuts.

>More virulent diseases *do* exist, pneumonic plague, for example. However,
>in that case, the disease is *so* virulent and *so* quick acting that it
>basically kills off its human victims so quickly that it cannot spread (at
>least at medieval rates of travel). Given that every Jump takes at least a
>week, then such a disease would kill the entire crew of a starship while
>it was in Jumpspace ... and leave no infectious material that I am aware
>of that would still *be* infectious after the bodies were dead for a week
>or more. Most of the really nasty diseases of modern times, things like
>Ebola and AIDS, are so difficult to catch that you practically have to go
>out and deliberately infect oneself.

But you are overlooking something...

In modern times, what you say is true. Ditto for medieval times. But
during the "Age of Exploration", there are numerous examples of
*exactly* the sort of thing you say can't happen. And they happened for
the same reason that such might happen when the Vilani and the humans
made contact, or when the two different races of Droyne met.

If you have two (or more) groups *isolated* from each other, and
introduce a disease into one of them, the disease will kill some, maybe
lots (like your Spanish flu example). And over time, the disease
becomes a "childhood nuisance" (like measles or chicken pox). But that
is *not* solely due to mutations in the disease, in fact it *rarely*
is.

Consider what happens after the disease has become a "childhood
nuisance" in one group if you then allow that group to contact another
group that's never been exposed to it before.

When Europeans contacted the various cultures *not* on the
Afro-Eurasian landmass, things like *measles* killed many, many
natives. Whole villages were depopulated.

The trick here is that the people from the "relatively immune" group
act as *carriers*. *They* aren't affected by the disease, so they can
keep travelling.

Solomani Prisoners of war, or "diplomats" or whatever, would provide a
vector for infection.

BTW, historically, this hasn't *all* been one way. While it is true
that the "larger", "more connected" culture tends to be the one
spreading diseases to the other culture, there is some limited evidence
of things going the other way. Syphilis is suspected of having
originated in the New World and spread to the Old.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:18:44 -0400
From: Les Howie <lhowie@lrmi.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 561
Message-ID: <9601221218.AA25905@ lrmi.com>


Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu> wrote

<snip>
>
>..or, reality and the Hubble Space Telescope intrude on our little game.
>

I think Steve has identified on of the most serious problems in trying to do
a 3-D traveler with "realistic" local stars a-la 2300 -- the state of
knowledge is moving to quickly right now.  With 2 nearby stars identified as
having planets, and with the Hipparcos data ready to blow away any previous
attempt at serious astrometry, any set of stars you could come up with would
soon be proven invalid.  Not necessarily no fun, just wrong.  Its like
trying to write the definitive game of North American exploration in 1493.

ps: to get the raw Gleise 1991, try: http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/CDS.html

To learn more about Hipparcos, try:
http://astro.estec.esa.nl/SA-general/Projects/Hipparcos/hipparcos.html
Les Howie
Senior Software Developer
Atlantic LRMI


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:32:36 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Subject: 2300: Near Stars, "Alpha Crucis"
Message-ID: <s1035970.071@smtpgate.read.tasc.com>

Steven Bonneville writes:

>A typo has been found on the Near Star List.  The F2V star at
>coordinates <-45.0, -1.2, -20.5> identified as Alpha Crucis is in fact
>*Alpha Corvi*.

   I knew GDW had made a mistake (the distance between Alpha Crucis
and Terra could in no way result in Alpha Crucis ending up in the
Alpha Crucis Sector), and have on more than one occasion pointed this
out--reference my list of nearby stars in Traveller terms of last year.  In
my research on the stars nearest to Terra, it also became apparent that
Aldebaran isn't in the Solomani Rim either (after I had argued for a brief
time that it should be--c'est la science).  Somebody at GDW figured this
out long before I did, which is why Aldebaran Sector is named
appropriately, but unfortunately no corrections were ever issued on the
information contained in the GDW Solomani alien module.

>Alpha Crucis is further away and is a binary system containing a
>blue-white subgiant, while Alpha Corvi (Gliese 455.3) is a solo F2V.  It
>seems likely  that the person who prepared the NSL misread the star's
>constellation  abbreviation as Cru (Crux), not Crv (Corvus), especially
>considering that the preceding catalog entry (Gliese 455.2) is Eta
>Crucis.  "Alpha Crucis"/Alpha Corvi is just inside the map, placed 49.5 ly
>from Earth by the NSL.   This typo may have affected the sector
>naming scheme in TRAVELLER as well.

  It is almost certainly what happened.  Good job on identifying Alpha
Corvi, BTW, while I knew that star wasn't Alpha Crucis, I hadn't bothered
to take things the extra step and figure out just what that F5V star was.

   For my purposes, Alpha Crucis Sector is called `Alpha Leonis` Sector.
Alpha Leonis is the brightest star that region of space, and the name
(as opposed to Regulus, what it is also known by) is _relatively_ close
to the original.  I would like to officially recommend that all TMLers adopt it
in their campaigns.

Regards,

Harold D. Hale

Unofficial Director of the Galileo Institute for Traveller Astronomical
Correctness (GITAC)





------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:55:32 -0500
From: Christopher Beattie <chrisb@MPGN.COM>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: "Real Traveller" and GDW's past history
Message-ID: <199601221555.KAA07577@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>

"Christopher Weuve" <caw@intercon.com> said (among other things):

> My main problem with the feel of the TNE setting was the way Virus was
> descibed [_not_ the concept of Virus itself].  This problem also extends to a
> lot of the criticism I have heard regarding Virus.  The game takes place
> several thousand years in the future, yet the computers work like our
> computers (only better), and Virus and the sentient chips were explained in
> present day terms.

I agree.  In fact, had the virus been presented in a more logical manner, I
think
more people would have been in favor of it.  You didn't have to go from the
central
computer to people shouting jump coordinates between workstations.  There
are ways
that later ships could prevent themselves from infection problems without such
drastic methods.  Even in modern computers, never mind in future ones.

> Everytime I hear a programmer say Virus is impossible, I shudder -- as a
> computer professional with ten years experience and an interest in the
history
> of computer science, I flashback to the founder of DEC saying there is no
> market for personal computers or Bill Gates saying no one will ever need more
> that 640k.  The criticism that Virus is impossible is as
temporally-limited as
> saying that Virus is impossible because it doesn't use punch cards.

Well, as far as I know I think positronic brains are probably impossible, but
they have been the mainstay of sci fiction since Asimov "invented" them.  Living
Silicon like circuits have appeared already in lots of sci and semi sci fi
things
including (gasp) Star Trek TNG, so living silicon chips gone bad is a logical
step.

There is only one thing we can be certain of about the future, whatever it will
become, what we think it will become isn't it.  Look at the early part of the
century for descriptions of life today.  Mostly off the mark in part because
no one thought about how practical things would be.  They looked spiff, but
there were reasons why they did not become popular.  Thus no flying cars,
no video phones, etc, even though we do have the technology to do these with
ease.

> I would have been much happier if Dave Nilsen had defined computers like that
> discovered in Jim Hogan's second _Giants_ novel: Computers are blocks of
> silicon or other materials using advanced principles we (20c humans) can't
yet
> understand, let along duplicate.  The programs that run on these computers
> (including Virus) are created using advanced methods developed over thousands
> of years.  Here's the cost, weight, capability, and difficulty to repair
-- go
> roleplay.  As long as there are no major violations of known laws of physics
> (at least without a justifcation), nothing else should matter.

I will partly agree and partly disagree.  We need to know some details about the
computers, but not the technical ones.  Do they have limits?  Are they snetient?
Can the traveling salesman problem be solved in less than an order of N squared.
(HEY THAT IS IMPORTANT!  HONEST!)  Some minor technical tidbits like a Suicide
Circuit, a virus snifer which when triggered causes the computer to shut down
by doing a core melt.

Example: There was a Hard Disk Drive built during the 60's that upon pressing
a certain button would cause the heads to clamp down on to the platters and
a fire retardant foam would be sprayed in the disk.  The result was the
complete ruination of ths disk, but it was one way to make sure the computer
never took control of the world. <G>  (I KID YOU NOT)

This may be a little too detailed for what we want, but the idea of such things
such as an emergency shut off button, etc. is general enough to be of use.

|     _____         |Christopher Beattie |Tantalus Incorporated|
|  ___ |[]|_n_n_I_c |Tantalus @ Key West |        P.O. Box 2310|
| |___||__|###|____)|Development Division|   Key West, FL 33045|
|  O-O--O-O+++--O-O |chrisb@mpgn.com     |Phone: (305) 293-8100|
| Opinions expressed here belong to me!  |  Fax: (305) 292-7835|







|     _____         |Christopher Beattie |Tantalus Incorporated|
|  ___ |[]|_n_n_I_c |Tantalus @ Key West |        P.O. Box 2310|
| |___||__|###|____)|Development Division|   Key West, FL 33045|
|  O-O--O-O+++--O-O |chrisb@mpgn.com     |Phone: (305) 293-8100|
| Opinions expressed here belong to me!  |  Fax: (305) 292-7835|


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 562
***************************
